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Stevan Little

  • Website: moe.iinteractive.com
  • About: I am the original author of Moose and am (again) working on the p5-mop project to bring some of the core features of Moose into the core. I am also conducting a thought experiment called Moe to see what an Ultra Modern Perl 5 would look like.
  • Commented on Subroutine signatures in Perl are long overdue
    Actually p5-mop will not have a built in type constraint system, it will be able to support existing type constraint systems via the trait mechanism. This test shows an example of that....
  • Posted Status update on the p5 MOP project to Stevan Little

    As I was doing my daily check of blogs.perl.org, I noticed a recent post by Ovid in which he said ...

    Of course, we also need the p5…

  • Commented on Subroutine signatures in Perl are long overdue
    Ovid, nope, p5-MOP is most certainly not dead, we have just been too busy with work (and prior to that, the holidays) to do any real work on it. I am currently shoving a ton of C and XS into...
  • Commented on Diamonds are a Moose's Best Friend
    So couple things I want to point out. First, Moose has always avoided being "magical", meaning it is built on a foundation of well researched science instead of dark incantations and goat entrails. While it might seem magical in places,...
  • Commented on Perl and Me, Part 3: A Møøse once bit my sister
    Well, if "x" is constructing a million classes, then you should be safe cause no sane person would do that for any sane program. But if "x" is constructing a single class, then you have to decide if "x" being...
  • Commented on Perl and Me, Part 3: A Møøse once bit my sister
    If you are creating 1e3 classes in your program, then your issue isn't Moose it is a fundamental misunderstanding of how to use OOP. But hey, it makes a good benchmark (in that many benchmarks are nothing more then a...
  • Commented on Arrow Operator Shenanigans
    Mithaldu, People have (ab)used the roles in Moose::Autobox to produce a similar behavior without actual auto boxing. package MyArray { use Moose; with 'Moose::Autobox::Array'; } my $array = bless [] => 'MyArray'; $array->push(1, 2, 3); print $array->join(", ");...
  • Commented on A Metaobject Protocol for Core Perl 5 (translated from Russian)
    Actually I have one correction: This is almost a complete copy of Perl 6 syntax. At the moment only attributes with the $! twigil is supported, and they behave as public attributes (even though in Perl 6 they indicate private...
  • Commented on I want mop rest capability to define fast accessor
    Yuki - What you are asking for is not something that should be part of the mop, it would be part of the Perl compiler itself. This would be similar to how the Perl interpreter optimizes constants, by detecting a...
  • Commented on Mop for Beginners
    Toby pretty much said it all, but I wanted to add a few things. First off, thanks for writing up the blog post and taking time to discuss this, I really appreciate it. In regards to the Method::Signatures idea. I...
  • Commented on Pondering the Mop Up
    Buddy, Thanks for the in depth comments, this is great! Couple of things I wanted to note. 1) Twigils really do grow on you, I agree they are a little offensive to the eyes, but they really help make attributes...
  • Commented on The proposal of separating method keyword from mop
    Yuki - Actually, I retract my earlier statement, I don't think this is a good idea. Just adding the keyword "method" that automatically shifts off the invocant and names it $self is not altogether that useful. For instance, this does...
  • Commented on The proposal of separating method keyword from mop
    Yuki - I will discuss this with the other MOP developers, I am not entirely opposed to it. Please add an issue to the github repository for the mop so that we can discuss it in the proper forum....
  • Commented on Compare projects p2, gperl, MoarVM
    Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the p2 stats a little skewed by the fact you are including all the work done on potion before p2 was thought of? I mean, you could argue that as work that...
  • Commented on p5-mop Inside-Out object problem
    @chris - Yes, currently you have to do this: my $value_in_foo = mop::get_meta('MyClass')->get_attribute('$!foo')->fetch_data_in_slot_for($my_instance); Kind of long, but still accessible....
  • Commented on What if Perl OO was a Core Feature?
    shawncorey - No, it is not. Allow me to explain the reasons why. (NOTE: I am going to explain this from the perspective of someone who didn't learn OO from Perl) 1) It confuses class methods and instance methods by...
  • Commented on p5-mop Inside-Out object problem
    @yuki - We are trying to keep the mop very minimal, and we are especially trying to keep the changes that MOP requires in the core minimal. I think what you perceive as complexity is really unfamiliarity....
  • Commented on What if Perl OO was a Core Feature?
    @shawncorey - It should be just as simple to ignore OO fanatics with p5-mop in core as it is to ignore them now. I do not think that having a better OO system in the core will change that. This...
  • Commented on YAPC::Asia Tokyo 2013 is over
    Lestrrat - Kudos to you and all the hard work you and your co-conspirators have put in over the years, I don't think you guys get nearly as much appreciation as you deserve here on the "western" side of the...
  • Commented on p5-mop Inside-Out object problem
    Steven - And actually, the argument that Ruby is somehow more pure is usually associated with the fact that in Ruby everything is an object (String, Number, etc). This is not the direction I am trying to take things at...
  • Commented on p5-mop Inside-Out object problem
    Steven - Actually I am going very strongly for Perl 6 and not Ruby....
  • Commented on What if Perl OO was a Core Feature?
    shawncorey - just because the core gets an improved OO system does not mean that OO will invade all of Perl. In fact, just the opposite, part of why it has taken so long to get a new OO system...
  • Commented on What if Perl OO was a Core Feature?
    Timm, you might be interested to learn about my current project, p5-mop which is exactly what you are talking about, a proposal for a new object system for the Perl 5 core. It is currently only in prototype stages, but...
  • Commented on p5-mop Inside-Out object problem
    Yuki, for the moment, we have mop::object;:dump, which Tobyink already commented about. It recursively calls the &dump method and so should serve all your debugging needs (and it only costs 6 extra characters). I would love to support something that...
  • Commented on p5-mop, a gentle introduction
    gpiero - I think that //= would be more confusing to the user then just =, for both you would have to explain that the value is not created immediately and only created upon instance creation. As for just plain...
  • Commented on Notes on porting to p5-mop
    Zak - Thanks for the blog post, getting feedback like this is critical to the success of p5-mop. One thing to note, we currently do not have plans to support @!array or %!hash for attributes, this is because you cannot...
  • Commented on On porting a Moose module
    arunbear - at the moment it does not via the core, but that will likely change. That said, it is pretty trivial to write a trait to do it, here is an example trait in the tests that implements the...
  • Commented on p5-mop, a gentle introduction
    nObody - it should be backportable to at least 5.16 and possibly even 5.14 (as a less performant CPAN version (basically the prototype with improvements and tweaks)). As for the new syntax, actually it is not anything terribly new, its...
  • Commented on p5-mop, a gentle introduction
    Diab - We do not treat undef as special, the decision was made to let undef work for has exactly as it works for my. Which is not how it works in Moo{se}, so in a sense we are returning...
  • Posted On porting a Moose module to Stevan Little

    I have been meaning to write this post for a while, but between $work and getting sick I have not really had the brain capacity to do it. Being that I am still a little sick and $work is still busy, I am making no promises about the quality of this post.

    In a previous blog post I ="…

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  • Toby Inkster commented on Subroutine signatures in Perl are long overdue

    I've actually been doing quite a bit of work to get Kavorka's method signature syntax to be compatible (a superset) of the Perl 5.20 sub signature syntax.

    I've also filed "wishlist" bugs against Method::Signatures and Function::Parameters to the same end. As an aside, I believe all three of the signature implementations I mention above support the exact syntax mentioned in the post:

    method get_somethi…
  • Damian Conway commented on Subroutine signatures in Perl are long overdue

    Ross asked:

    how will Method::Signatures or similar extension modules work with the 5.19 proposal?

    For the moment, M::S and the other modules will remain independent of the new signatures feature of 5.19+. They will certainly continue to work correctly. You can even use both mechanisms in the same program. There's no conflict, because M::S uses the declarators func and method, whereas the built-in feature uses good old sub.

    The long-term hope is that the built-in signature mechanism may eventually be m…

  • Aristotle commented on Subroutine signatures in Perl are long overdue

    I honestly don't know why it's taken this long to even have them experimentally in the core.

    Yeah? Well I know. And Ross Attrill said it:

    Many of these modules seem to have many more features than the 5.19 proposal.

    That’s why. Everybody wants lots of features in signatures, and everybody wants a different set. So every previous proposal suffered the same fate: people couldn’t quite accept a signature proposal that lacked just the one extra feature that seemed indispensable given the over…

  • Damian Conway commented on Subroutine signatures in Perl are long overdue

    Thanks for clarifying the nature of p5-mop's type support, Stevan. I guess you've got more than enough on your plate at this stage, without adding in a native type system as well. ;-)

  • Aristotle commented on Subroutine signatures in Perl are long overdue

    (Oh and btw, in case my comment seemed berating – it wasn’t supposed to be, not exactly: I was myself one of the people who, in a previous round, thought a minimal signature proposal really can’t work without just that one extra feature. And that’s after I’d seen a previous proposal die from being loaded with obviously too many features in the first place. So the next time around I thought I was arguing for the minimum… which was nonsense. So by the time Peter Martini showed up with his patch, I had finally swallowed my lesson: any viable proposal must have…

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