Stevan Little

Recent Actions

• Commented on mop minus proposal
  Yuki, You might be interested to know that I am now working on YAMP (Yet Another Mop Prototype) (I really should do something to link all the prototypes, perhaps merge up all the separate git repos into a single repo...
• Posted Reboot All The Things - My thoughts on this years YAPC::NA to Stevan Little

  There is an old saying that "distance makes the heart grow fonder", and watching Matt Trout talking at YAPC::NA this year filled me with the mixed emotions embodied within that saying. I am simultaneously sad that I was not there to correct Matt's swiss cheese memory of past events and happy that…

• Commented on mop problem 5 - Role and C3 searching is not always necessary
  C3 will not be part of the MOP, it is part of the core of Perl already, it will be possible for a user of the MOP to use C3 just as it is possible for a user to do...
• Commented on mop problem 3 - class, extends, and method keyword should be independent from mop
  The current prototype (#3) is separating the syntax and the mop itself. Also, we dropped the inside-out thing, now it is going to be an opaque C pointer....
• Commented on mop problem 4 - mop is misleading name
  Yes, "mop" is kind of an obscure name, it might change before being added to the core. However, your reasoning is incorrect. With a meta-circular object model, everything is an object, a class (as represented in the mop) is simply...
• Commented on On prototyping in public ... the long version
  I’m also struck by how much this whole journey mirrors the programmer’s usual reaction to trying to read someone else’s code: “this sucks, I’ll just write it from scratch myself.” :-) You have looked at the guts of Perl 5...
• Commented on On prototyping in public ... the long version
  Yeah, I kind of knew Moe was never going to succeed in the end, but it was a fun project to hack on. And like I said, I learned a whole lot by doing it and it did seem to...
• Posted On prototyping in public ... the long version to Stevan Little

  I recently posted a quick update on the p5-mop project the other day, something I have been meaning to do for a long time. I am sure given the slow and often rocky progress of this project that many…

• Commented on On prototyping in public ...
  Timm, you can use the prototype on CPAN for now - https://metacpan.org/release/STEVAN/mop-0.03-TRIAL - the guts will likely change, but the surface syntax and semantics should stay mostly the same....
• Posted On prototyping in public ... to Stevan Little

  I really need to expand on this a little more, but for now this can serve as a status update on p5-mop.

  mst: so, is -redux now "the last prototype" and p5-mop-XS "the current hopefully-not-just-a-prototype" ?
  stevan: hehe
  stevan: so here is the offic…
• Commented on On prototyping in public ...
  perlpilot, honestly I have no idea what version it will ultimately be in, and I am not really wanting to speculate given the rocky path so far. I had hopes for 5.20, which obviously won't happen (though we will get...
• Commented on On prototyping in public ...
  tlrrd, Crowdfunding this is a nice idea in theory, but not practical given my personal family situation, the cost would be just to high and complexity (healthcare, etc.) to great....
• Commented on Subroutine signatures in Perl are long overdue
  Actually p5-mop will not have a built in type constraint system, it will be able to support existing type constraint systems via the trait mechanism. This test shows an example of that....
• Posted Status update on the p5 MOP project to Stevan Little

  As I was doing my daily check of blogs.perl.org, I noticed a recent post by Ovid in which he said ...

  Of course, we also need the p5…

• Commented on Subroutine signatures in Perl are long overdue
  Ovid, nope, p5-MOP is most certainly not dead, we have just been too busy with work (and prior to that, the holidays) to do any real work on it. I am currently shoving a ton of C and XS into...
• Commented on Diamonds are a Moose's Best Friend
  So couple things I want to point out. First, Moose has always avoided being "magical", meaning it is built on a foundation of well researched science instead of dark incantations and goat entrails. While it might seem magical in places,...
• Commented on Perl and Me, Part 3: A Møøse once bit my sister
  Well, if "x" is constructing a million classes, then you should be safe cause no sane person would do that for any sane program. But if "x" is constructing a single class, then you have to decide if "x" being...
• Commented on Perl and Me, Part 3: A Møøse once bit my sister
  If you are creating 1e3 classes in your program, then your issue isn't Moose it is a fundamental misunderstanding of how to use OOP. But hey, it makes a good benchmark (in that many benchmarks are nothing more then a...
• Commented on Arrow Operator Shenanigans
  Mithaldu, People have (ab)used the roles in Moose::Autobox to produce a similar behavior without actual auto boxing. package MyArray { use Moose; with 'Moose::Autobox::Array'; } my $array = bless [] => 'MyArray'; $array->push(1, 2, 3); print $array->join(", ");...
• Commented on A Metaobject Protocol for Core Perl 5 (translated from Russian)
  Actually I have one correction: This is almost a complete copy of Perl 6 syntax. At the moment only attributes with the $! twigil is supported, and they behave as public attributes (even though in Perl 6 they indicate private...
• Commented on I want mop rest capability to define fast accessor
  Yuki - What you are asking for is not something that should be part of the mop, it would be part of the Perl compiler itself. This would be similar to how the Perl interpreter optimizes constants, by detecting a...
• Commented on Mop for Beginners
  Toby pretty much said it all, but I wanted to add a few things. First off, thanks for writing up the blog post and taking time to discuss this, I really appreciate it. In regards to the Method::Signatures idea. I...
• Commented on Pondering the Mop Up
  Buddy, Thanks for the in depth comments, this is great! Couple of things I wanted to note. 1) Twigils really do grow on you, I agree they are a little offensive to the eyes, but they really help make attributes...
• Commented on The proposal of separating method keyword from mop
  Yuki - Actually, I retract my earlier statement, I don't think this is a good idea. Just adding the keyword "method" that automatically shifts off the invocant and names it $self is not altogether that useful. For instance, this does...
• Commented on The proposal of separating method keyword from mop
  Yuki - I will discuss this with the other MOP developers, I am not entirely opposed to it. Please add an issue to the github repository for the mop so that we can discuss it in the proper forum....
• Commented on Compare projects p2, gperl, MoarVM
  Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the p2 stats a little skewed by the fact you are including all the work done on potion before p2 was thought of? I mean, you could argue that as work that...
• Commented on p5-mop Inside-Out object problem
  @chris - Yes, currently you have to do this: my $value_in_foo = mop::get_meta('MyClass')->get_attribute('$!foo')->fetch_data_in_slot_for($my_instance); Kind of long, but still accessible....
• Commented on What if Perl OO was a Core Feature?
  shawncorey - No, it is not. Allow me to explain the reasons why. (NOTE: I am going to explain this from the perspective of someone who didn't learn OO from Perl) 1) It confuses class methods and instance methods by...
• Commented on p5-mop Inside-Out object problem
  @yuki - We are trying to keep the mop very minimal, and we are especially trying to keep the changes that MOP requires in the core minimal. I think what you perceive as complexity is really unfamiliarity....
• Commented on What if Perl OO was a Core Feature?
  @shawncorey - It should be just as simple to ignore OO fanatics with p5-mop in core as it is to ignore them now. I do not think that having a better OO system in the core will change that. This...

Comment Threads

• Aristotle commented on On prototyping in public ... the long version

  You have looked at the guts of Perl 5 right?

  Oh I won’t call it well written, believe me. :-) I’ve tried to patch it at times, succeeded with trivial stuff outside the interpreter guts, and I’ve read others’ patches. I don’t have a firm grasp of it but I do have a sense of what it’s like to work with. It’s not as terrible as its reputation, and there are some really clever bits (that I mostly wish weren’t necessary…), but it’s no kind of beauty. Kinda like Perl-the-language (but with its coherence more corrupted by time), come to think o…

• daixtr commented on Does Perl (5) have a future?

  I DO NOT get and CANNOT understand WHY WHY WHY that if Perl6 will not come will eventually led to the death of Perl????

  What?

  Look, I remember I started doing my first computer program on a programmable calculator in high school. I have exhausted all the APIs of the calculator and so what remains available to me are the infinite possibilities of how to solve a problem in the most efficient means. Now, when i moved the world of PC computer programming, I AM a bit surprised there. I am surprised that there seems to be an ever growing set of API and no matter how much I waited, …

• Yuki Kimoto commented on mop problem 4 - mop is misleading name

  thanks, I add some sentence to entry.
  

• Yuki Kimoto commented on mop minus proposal

  Stevan

  >You might be interested to know that I am now working on YAMP (Yet Another Mop Prototype)

  I'm glad to know this project. I also try to add some meta object protocol features to mop::minus.

• Luca Ferrari commented on mop minus proposal

  While I appreciate the effort, I cannot understand why another OOP support when there already a lot, and with a very good implementation (Moose being probably the most adopted).